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February 11, 2010

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Pat W

I don't like it either.

One thing I do like is that it is a concept open to any company to come along and build it. If that's the only way to get chassis and engines from multiple sources... I can just about live with that, even if it is more restrictive than GrandAm. He's also right in the quote with Curt that 18-35 are into tech.

But can we apply those ideas to a different car?

Tom G.

Whoa, man. What a crazy night. I have got to learn to lay off the hard stuff. I had the craziest dream that the Indy Team Owners united and introduced a new chassis that looked like something out of a bad Sci-Fi movie. You wouldn't believe... um, what's that?

No! No! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Scott

Oblivious to the fact that this is a concept, not the car they are proposing anyone actually build?

Delta wing is the new white paper.

There will be a new spec. There will be multiple manufacturers. Indycar will be interesting again!

Allen Wedge

The only reason this isn't New COKE is because Coca-Cola actually went out and taste-tested the new formula and blind taste tests had New Coke winning hands down as a better product; it was just a horrible marketing plan. No one was allowed to see Delta Wing until now, and anyone who was had to swear on their firstborn to never tell anyone about it.

rj

The reaction to this car from Robin Miller and Marshall Pruett is insane, they've covered this sport long enough they should know better. And Pruett in his previous articles over a few years has openly hated on Daytona Prototypes for their appearance as being ugly, as he thinks aescetics, or a racecar being sexy, is a requirement in high-class auto racing. Which I agree with, but how can he then praise the Delta Wing if he has that opinion on what racing is? His comments on DPs and him publicly throwing his weight behind this Delta Wing completely contradict one another. Miller on the other hand was praising this thing as the messiah and saying the IRL leadership needed to not be stupid and pick this car. Robin, you used to race midgets,

Leave aside the look of the car entirely though, there is so many engineering problems with this car, and the engineering problems are why them beign such gung-ho supporters of it makes me think their journalistic integrity has been compromised. The wheelbase is too small, no rear view mirrors as mynameisirl pointed out any driver that get T-boned will die, how can it have the same entry and exit speed into corners as the designer thinks?

Pruett I've never thought much of as a journalist but Robin in his next mailbag will get questions such as this and I'm trying to figure out how he can spin this while maintaining his integrity. must getting paid under the table to say certain things, or they're afraid if they don't play the soundpiece role they'll lose their access.

There's rumblings out there if this car is not selected, the owners will leave, which would only drive home the point that the reason NASCAR is popular and Indycar is not is because the leadership and car owners of Indycar over the last 35 years are too damn stupid to do anything correctly. Roger Penske is a smart, intelligent person. It carries over to the businesses he owns. He singlehandedly took over a dying company like Detroit Diesel and made them competitive in the marketplace. He's been in racing since the Can-Am days. How can he look at that car and think it's well-designed to receive his backing? 1.) He's gone completely delusional, which I don't think he has, or 2.) He wants power and control, which if that's the case we're returning to the late 1980s where teams, car constructors, and engine makers were kept in or out of the sport based solely on what Penske and Carl Haas wanted.

The "anyone can build this car" is a red herring. Access on who will be allowed in to build the car will still be controlled by these people. I've just followed this sport long enough to know better.

pressdog

Good point as usual on the New Coke thing, Wedge. I stand corrected. I think the most enraging thing about this entire deal is the complete lack of consultation with customers (at least that I am aware of).

rj

I think the most enraging thing about this entire deal is the complete lack of consultation with customers (at least that I am aware of).

So Sarah wasn't told about it?

She's not on the Delta Wing owner list (probably better for her that way to be honest). A person on 10/10ths said that the others not on the owner list for this concept are Carl Haas, A.J. Foyt, Dale Coyne, and Greg Beck.

pressdog

RJ, when I say customers I'm talking about you and me. Customers of the IndyCar product. You know, fans? The ones who ultimate provide the revenue for all this. No fans, no sponsors. Owners are not customers. If anything they're the sellers, not the buyers. Maybe suppliers to a store (the league) that wants to sell to bunches of fans. Given the super secrecy, I doubt anyone bothered to ask fans what they wanted and would spend money to watch race.

Trick Dickle

Hacks like Miller and Pruett are OF COURSE going to support the Chicken Wing.

Because they support ANYTHING that Barnhart does not. If Barnhart was for this, Miller would probably say its ridiculous looking and that we should stick with Dallara.

Interesting that Foyt, Fisher and Beck weren't a part of the "united group of Indy Car owning morons". I wonder why?

Penske isn't a supporter either.

Seems we may be seeing "2 camps" organizing. Could be interesting...

redd

While some of the owners may be backing this concept, and I do think they're totally serious, I don't believe the series would split over it. I don't believe that at all.

And P-Dog, I can't stop laughing at that photo. Funniest photo ever.

rj

"RJ, when I say customers I'm talking about you and me. Customers of the IndyCar product. You know, fans? The ones who ultimate provide the revenue for all this. No fans, no sponsors. Owners are not customers. If anything they're the sellers, not the buyers."

Sorry, just figured you meant customers by the people that would be buying the car.

If they asked fans though, what would fans have told them? The remaining Indycar fanbase isn't the most united set of people though. They'd've been told everything from 1960s roadsters to having the same rules as Formula One.

I'd love to be an journalist today though and calling up engineers that were surprised by the car yesterday and getting their opinions off the record.

"Penske isn't a supporter either."

He's on the Delta Wing owner list.

"Owners Michael Andretti, Eric Bachelart, John Barnes, Tony George, Kevin Kalkhoven, Roger Penske, Dennis Reinbold, Keith Wiggins and Chip Ganassi have endorsed building the protoype and formed a company called Delta Wing LLC."

Speedy

United the fan base?

No, I like it and hope they adopt it, sans changes.

And I actually preferred the taste of New Coke!

Dylan

Penske's been reported to be open to either idea. He's a smart bussness man and is smart enough to be ready for any of the options. This is a big thign for Ganassi, s Penske needed to be involved too, or risk getting left behind.

My biggest problem with Delta Wing is Swift. I loved option 33/32, and compared to it, Delta Wing is a joke. If Swift hadn't realased those pictures, and it was Dallara V Wing, then I'd support Delta Wing more.

rj

"Penske's been reported to be open to either idea. He's a smart business man and is smart enough to be ready for any of the options. This is a big thign for Ganassi, s Penske needed to be involved too, or risk getting left behind."

I agree that Penske is a smart businessman. That's why I'm perplexed. This is not a question of "wow, it looks different", it's a question of "can that car work in the real world and actually race?" Penske I think would know how a tricycle would try (or not try) to operate the Long Beach hairpin or turn 1 at Indy. If the car is completely controlled by the rear wheels in turning, what's going to happen to the front wheels, draw on a napkin and follow the wheel travel of the front wheels compared to the rears, what's going to happen to the fronts?

James

As a concept car the Delta Wing is absolutely brillient, no other design has provoked such a responce. In that regard it is like very good art. I believe the concepts behind the car are sound.
* get rid of the wings to make close racing achievable and safer.
* very light weight for high acceleration on road courses.
* Very low CFD to allow lower HP engines to push it to high speeds for ovals.
* A highly identifiable shape that differentiates the car any other form of motor racing. No chance of confusion between an indy car and a F1 car.

Do I think the car in its current shape will race? NO. Its a concept car - its purpose is to provoke debate and provide a path to the future. In this regard it has exceeded its design remit.

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