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February 10, 2010


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p dog what is wrong with u. this is soo incrediable open your mind

Leigh O'Gorman





Wow..That thing is UGLY. It resembles nothing to an open wheel car. (Not that it is supposed too) It looks like the batmobile from Tim Burton's versions. Robin Miller says it grows on you. HOW? I read speed's interview with Bowlby and I understand the technical aspect of making the racing better. But this is like replacing the tradional baseball bat used in baseball with a titanium alloy co2 cannon to shoot that ball farther than using the bat.

Tom G.

As Mom would say "Well, that's... interesting"

They said it would be radical, and Cavin definitely was right when he said it looked like the LSR car.

Sure ain't a DP-01, which (as we all know) is the gold standard in Open Wheel design. :-)


THAT is not an open-wheel car; keep it the heck away from Indy and Long Beach
back to Swift and Dallara...


Does have a Tim Burton Batmobile look (but better as I hated that late 80s BM)... & much better than the ultra lame Dallara concepts.

However, I like the SWIFT concepts much better. Anyone know how legit the Swift design is???


I admit I don't like the way the car looks. However-and I'm willing to say this-I'm not a mechanical engineer, just like most of the posters a plebian fan. If it is proven to work the best, then I will accept it. But outwardly, I don't like it at all.


Dear GOD,

Please. Please. Please. Let Lola, and Dallara win the contracts.

With all Respect,
A Soldier in Iraq.

Mark Lamb

Look's like a 230 mph enema..!!!!!!

Tom G.

PS - I'll take that Scotch now.


Tom G, WE DON'T ALL KNOW that the DP-01 is the gold standard in open wheel racing car design. Why do you say that it is?


I feel so conflicted. Half of me loves it, half hates it. Then throw in Swifts option 32/33, which I love, and I have no clue


Dear Roger Penske,


Very Respectfully,
A Soldier in Iraq

Fred Hurley

I understand the prevailing opinion is strongly against this car, and I admit it didn't immediately pull me in, but I also don't hate it as much as I did yesterday.

1.) If Bowlby's claims are true, the actual racing product could be fantastic, not just good.

2.) This was not designed by kids on Ritalin, but by a proven race car designer. I suspect most of his claims are legitimate.

3.) There is really only one major problem for me - the front wheels. Unfortunately, I think they're also a big reason why this thing could be so racy.

4.) This isn't the Miss America pageant. It's racing. If this thing can get to the checkered flag ahead of other cars, then it SHOULD win a big trophy, no matter what it looks like. Because that is, in the end, what racing is about. If it wins, then it's beautiful.

My thoughts are usually this on "concept" cars. They are fun to imagine (maybe), but in reality, when it comes to production and cost, developers/owners will meet at some weird point in the middle.

I've been to the Chicago Auto show more times than I can remember and usually one, MAYBE two ideas/features of a concept car make it to production.

However, when it's a competition, this to me is a loser in the battle that's going on. Too radical too soon.

Travis R

I just can't picture a bunch of these racing side-by-side on a road course or street circuit.

It's interesting, but a little bit too over the top for me. George Barris?


I think it's terribly ugly. I vote for Swift's more normal looking concept.

I'm not chassis designer, but I bet that thing would be terribly slow on a road course. And I'd **much** rather have road courses than this novelty.


I appreciate your thoughts, Fred. Sincerely. But seeings as this is a business, not an academic exercise, you have to have racing that people want to watch. A lot of Kart races are fantastic, incredible competition, etc. etc., but they don't appeal to enough fans to make it work on a business level. If you put fugly cars on the track and the racing is INSANELY AWESOME, nobody will watch and you will go broke -- but the racing will be great.


Atway P'dog KEEP IT COMING...

Drayton Sawyer

For some reason, I'm not even remotely scared of this machine. In fact I want to take it to Indy and see if I can make it through turn one. The data provided on Delta's site is very interesting, they say this thing could do 270mph on Indy's front stretch with only 500hp. While it is certainly not anything we've every seen before, I wanna see the testing prototype run before I make a decision, Heck who knows, the future could very well

Chris Lukens

How in the world are you supposed to load that right front wheel in a turn? This thing will turn over just like a tricycle. Are we sure this whole Delta Wing kerfuffel was not some kind of "Agent provocateur" ploy from Dallara and Swift?

The Speedgeek

I don't understand how it's going to work. Nearly 75% of the weight of the car and 80% of the downforce on the rear wheels? And the front only has those 4 or 6" wide tires to try to get the thing to turn? And it looks like they'll hit the bodywork when they're turned past about 15 degrees? All of those numbers tell me that it's going to go directly into the first wall that it sees.

Either there is some very, very trick front (and rear) suspension geometry at play, or Bowlby knows some extra special engineering that one only learns when given prolonged exposure to carbon fiber epoxy, or we're all looking at a very elaborate hoax.

Well, on second thought, I'm not going to pretend to know everything, as I can't even watch the Youtube sim videos right now. I've got an open mind, but I'm going to take a LOT of convincing.

Fred Hurley

I think we're also all missing the biggest gem hidden in the Bowlby interview.

He talked about laps in the 235 mph range.

That is perilously close to (say it with me), "a newwww track recorrrrd."

Leigh O'Gorman

At first I though "ewwwww..."
But the more I read the article, the more I thought "this could be one of the greatest evolutions in motor racing in the last 40 years.

Suddenly it feels that moment in the late 50's when rear-engined cars began to turn up and when a decade later aerodynamics started to emerge.
Some of the "traditionalists" of those days also complained that it didn't look like a racing car, but very quickly perceptions were changed when it became successful and more widely used.

I still need some convincing, but before I make any solid assumptions, I want to see how the car works.

NE Vista

I understand that it is easy to recoil at a completely new look, but I can’t imagine myself ever feeling anything but disgust for this design. It doesn’t even break new aesthetic ground; instead, it looks like a Bonneville Salt Flats racer.

I have no doubt that as an engineering exercise, this design has some positive aspects. However, automobile racing remains a spectator sport. I can’t bear to even watch the simulation videos of this thing. Racing is about more than creating a machine that moves as quickly and efficiently as possible; racing and racing cars should be beautiful. The field of 33 rolling down the backstretch at Indy is beautiful to behold, and guests to the 500 that have no connection to cars or sports still manage to be impressed by the beauty and power of the spectacle.

I love the Swift concepts and could tolerate any of the Dallara concepts. However, if IndyCar chooses to pursue this particular option, this 25-year old car and IndyCar fan will become a F1 fan.

I'm not afraid of changing the IndyCar formula (indeed, I welcome it). This, however, is a radical change for radical change's sake. It is the wrong decision.

I know exactly how a turbocharger works and the basic concepts behind undertray downforce, but if Mr. Bowlby thinks that's why I watch IndyCar or any form of racing, he is gravely mistaken.


Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition!

Steve Barnes

I'm wondering two things ...
1) Maybe that rear upright fin will eventually have a "rudder" incorporated in it (like an airplane tail) to help turn the car
2) Maybe this is an exercise that is never meant to run ... it is the "excuse" the owner's will use to split from the IRL when the DeltaWing is rejected.
I'm hoping I'm wrong on #2, but I'm getting a bad feeling ...

Steve C

I may be (and am) in the minority but I like it. What interests me is that we need something to get lots of attention and greatly increase the racing. So while it may look odd I will wait to see what it looks like on the track.


I'm stunned. When they said it would like the "Spirit Of America" salt flats car, I didn't realize they meant that literally. While I'm certainly in agreement with their stated goals, and I realize they know a whole lot more about what they're doing than me, I just can't imagine a whole pack of those vehicles making it through turn one at Indy or Long Beach. It looks like the unholy coupling of ALMS car and an F-16. I'm going to take a nap.


If you put the same engine in all the proposed designs from lola, swift, dallara, delta wing I suspect the delta wing would win by a long way. As a former motor cycle road racer this appeals to my competitive streak. This is the reason I am coming round to liking the delta wing. It would be a very cool sight seeing ~33 of these 'flying' around the indy speedway.


It would win, or got straight into a wall. One or the other.


Dylan - Wouldn't it be cool to pick the wining design by actually well um 'racing' them against each other.

Leigh O'Gorman

@ Dylan,

It'll get around the turns by utilising the ground effects from the sides and undertray of the car.
In short, it doesn't need wings to turn, so the chances of it running into the wall may be either the same or less than the current Dallara's.


My concern on turning is how close the tires are together. It looks like a drag racer. I'd love to race them against each other. But a car with the Hp of a street car doesn't sound super appealing, even if it reaches 230.

Leigh O'Gorman

They don't need higher HP though, that's the point.
The reality for motor-racing is that it must be seen to be doing something to help the environment, lest it face possible sanctions in years to come.

The drive for more green-relevant machinery is what drives motorsports now; not big power - this isn't the 80's anymore.

Tom G.

Leigh & Dylan,

With the ground effects, I understand how it can turn at speed on an oval. The bigger question I have is how it would handle on a road or street course. Now I'm not an engineer, I just play one on TV, so I'm willing to give Bowlby the benefit of the doubt. Still, I'd like to better understand how it would race on a twisty.

Close circuit to Edward - My comment on the DP-01 was facetious. I was just teasing the folks that responded to the Dallara and Swift designs by complaining that "they're no DP-01".


I've seen the pics, I've read the specs, I've watched the video just to see if there was overtaking in this car.

I'm going to sum up my thoughts to Messers Bowlby and Ganassi with a line from the movie "Hoosiers".

"I'm trying hard to believe you know what you're doing." - Principal Cletus to Norman Dale at the first game.

Leigh O'Gorman

Thing is Tom, I made a point on my own site the other day that this is the reason we're not designers, aerodynamacists or engineers - Bowlby can obviously see something that we can't and it may need a test at a circuit to explain it to us.


If you want to get an idea of what 300HP can do take a look at an Ariel Atom.


Cmon all!

While I don't care for the design that much either. let's look at what this car brings to the table. Some very noteworthy improvements indeed. Remember the Indycar should not look like a F1 car! It should be different and stand out.
I think combining the best elements / concepts of all the designs recently presented would be the way to go here.

The vertical tail,(Marketing) narrow ground effects design, and rear tail cone include "Active stagger" and a small non-stressed engine. and low drag.
Made in America by an american company!
The exposed engine, place light, the fuel status. (easy to see on a vertical tail)
The #3 Red design with narrower front tires, much smaller front wing with the forward wheel fairings.
The light weight

Control actual BTU output. This allows all types of engines.
Onboard starters, reverse gears, real low-profile tires, bigger brakes.

A car with all these elements would be the best combination of visual appeal and racebility.


This is great discussion, but go into the stands at KS and Chicagoland and ask the fans if they are there because of the amount of horsepower or aero properties of the cars. I'd say very few. They are there root for someone or see great racing in cars they think are cool. I think we over think why fans come to the rack or watch on the telly. My opinion is no matter how super awesome the aero is, they aren't going to watch T-bone shaped cars to around the track.


I forgot to mention make the front suspension and wheel placement wider so it does not look like a Tri-cycle trying to be cool. The overall drag could be improved not like the DW but much better.

Drayton Sawyer

Pressdog, What if this car puts on great racing and people in the stands at KS and Chicagoland (don't know why you chose those two tracks) think this car is cool? What if there's 100 changes for the lead at the Indy 500 in this car? Who says the current style of car is the last word in racing? This car might be the next "fire" or "wheel", we'll all have to wait and see. I'm keeping my mind open and I'll let the Delta Wing's performance decide for me.


duey23: Concept cars from Chrysler in the 90s became real cars all the time. Numerous "cab-forward" designs were launched as showcars. The 2010 Camaro maintained its concept car proportions

Another concern: The ROAD to Indy. If the DW concept became the new Indycar... would this force the USF2000, Star Mazda, & Indy Lights to redesign their chassis?

Even if I really liked the DW... I wouldn't want to see EVERY junior series adopt this look!!!


I have to say... I TOTALLY love this design!

I wasn't sure if I was going to, but the moment I saw it I said "YES!".

Is it radical? YES - thankfully!

Change is scary, I know, but this is EXCITING!

And frankly, the ICS needs about as much change as they can get these days!

The Speedgeek

Two things:
1) After doing some thinking about the front track/wheels, I think they turn in tandem, like a caster. There's no room between the wheels for classic control arms like you find on current cars, as they'd be too short to allow sufficient camber...OK, I'll limit the techno-babble. Anyway, they probably turn together, and go up and down together, controlled by a single suspension piece, a la the rear of a motorcycle. I think it sort of still is a tricycle, just with two small front tires instead of one big one.

2) I just read Cavin's article from Chicago today. Here's the key part: "Said Ganassi: 'It's a concept, not a car.'"

What we saw today doesn't have to be the be-all, end-all of this concept. If it turns out that the fans universally hate it, then it's possible that they'd widen the front track and the nose, and adjust the proportions of the rear of the car such that it'll still do what they want. I think what's most important are the core group of values they're promoting: light weight (which everybody else stole over the last two weeks), small, turbocharged engines that don't have to make 1,000,000 horsepower if you design the rest of the car correctly, and aerodynamics that will ensure good, close racing. Oh, also, fast is good. Is this concept the way we'll see it on the track? No, but it's a starting point for future discussion.

Trick Dickle

Put 25 American drivers in these cars, and it will work. Put 25 good American drivers in ANYTHING, market it correctly and keep it economical and fun for fans, and you have what you need.

Indy Car needs to do SOMETHING different. Is this what is needed? Hell, I don't know. I do like the closed wheels theory. We are one bad accident away at a Kansas or a Chicago or a Texas, from the END of Indy Car racing as we know it anyway. Interlocking wheels and the results from this will kill fans someday and no sport can afford to do that.

Drivers are the key. Not cars. Put 25 Milka Duno's and Mario Moraes's in these things, and we aren't going anywhere.


american drivers? fenders? isn't someone already doing that?


These comments are all very awesome and respectful and I appreciate them all. I keep coming back to how I don't think anyone is going to pay $50 to $100 to watch these things race. No matter how breathtaking the racing is. Right now IndyCar's racing is better and our cars are cooler (even if you don't like the Dallara, it's cooler than the Tank of Tomorrow, right?) and we are not packing them in. Show the car to some non-IndyCar head and see what the do.

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