Swift Urges Fan Input, Says Designs Still Evolving

The chief scientist for Swift Engineering said Friday their effort to design a new IndyCar is an evolving process and that his company is ready to collaborate, including with the designers of the controversial DeltaWing project.

“I think (DeltaWing designer) Ben (Bowlby) has made a technical breakthrough,” said Mark Page, Swift’s chief scientist on the IndyCar project. “I know some fans take issue with the appearance. But I also know that Ben’s done the math on cornering, braking and drafting on speedways and road courses. So the car would perform as he said.”

Page said Swift sees two key areas of Delta Wing to address further.

“First, the present IndyCar has a large safety database,” Page said. “As long as the next IndyCar has a similar layout, the database and rules apply. The DeltaWing would require more safety work to get the same certainty we enjoy today. Second, the fans have an idea of what constitutes an IndyCar. DeltaWing may have hit the boundary.”

Fans have an impact

Speaking Friday from Swift's headquarters in San Clemente, CA, Page had a simple message for fans: keep talking. He said professionals from all the chassis builders constantly comb blogs, message boards and mainstream print media and Web sites devouring fan input.

“Because of time constraints we didn’t have a survey to get extra information outside what you guys are doing on the blogs and news stories on what fans wanted to see in the car,” said Page. “What was neat was when we were invited to share what we have been doing (with the world), it was quite eye-opening to get the fan reaction to everyone’s concepts and proposals. 

“That has been invaluable data. It’s no exaggeration that everyone at Swift and everyone at Dallara and Lola, all they are doing is reading your blogs and other fan reaction. With all this fan feedback -- which I think is unprecedented in this series -- that’s going to inform a lot of things.”

Page said not only does fan opinion generate ideas and influence car designs, but it's vital to the success of the end product.

“The reason we are so keen on fan input is that, frankly, if you are in business, stuff gets sold and stays sold because people think it’s cool,” said Page. “It’s just that simple. There’s nothing more to it. If you want to have something and have people buy in, if they think it looks cool it’s a big deal. And we want to make stuff that looks cool. But from a business perspective it’s absolutely the smartest thing you can do.”

The bottom line, Page said, is the fans’ immediate reaction. “If the fans love it or hate it, they love it or hate it. If you have to tell them why they love it you’ve lost and if you have to tell them why they don’t hate it you’ve lost. It has to be instant. The impression has to be instant to be successful, particularly with the appearance of the car. Some of that is discretionary. So you really have to work hard to make sure it’s sending the right message. That’s its job. That said, the aero drives everything and of course the mechanical as well and the rules box. Spanning that space (between aero, mechanical, rules and aesthetics) is a blast.”

Form, function and SwiftLights

To “span the space,” as Page puts it, Swift uses a principal called “aerostyling.” That’s the belief that styling and aerodynamics have to be developed in tandem in order to make a visually appealing, high-performing car. On the Swift concepts, Chris Norris and Brendan Kennelly worked the design side.

Swift has attempted to make their cars more visually appealing and interesting for fans through their unique “SwiftLights.” Page said the lights are “five times brighter than any fluorescent light you have ever seen” and will give fans instant information on which cars are on the lead lap, position of the top five cars, fuel load, breaking and accelerating.

Under the current thinking, all cars on the lead lap will have illuminated green roll hoops. The car in fifth place will have one band of white around the base of its roll hoop. P4 will have two bands of white continuing on up until the P1 car’s roll hoop is completely white.

Braking light indicators on the side of the car give the fans — particularly at road and street races — interesting information about when and how deep into corners drivers brake, when they get back on the throttle, etc. Even on ovals the acceleration lights would indicate who has to lift during a lap and who doesn’t. Fuel loading lights give fans insight into fueling strategies. Lights would be positioned so cars behind couldn’t see anything or be distracted.

Exact positioning and arrangement of the SwiftLights will be the subject of more modeling and testing. “We’re moving forward with (the SwiftLights), whatever happens with this particular (IndyCar) program, because we think it’s a great idea for any racing series,” Page said.

Nose-to-tail with the “Mushroom Buster”

Page’s said Swift’s “Mushroom buster,” a small wing and other aero additions on the tail, help “sweep up” the car’s wake and allow other cars to follow closely with much less turbulence. A smaller version of the proposed IndyCar mushroom buster has already proved itself on Swift’s Formula Nippon car.

Showing some engine bling

Swift’s unique ideas also include areas of exposed engines. Page said idea came from IndyCars in the 50s, 60s and 70s that often had a section of engine clearly visible. Swift’s press release said the unique cut-outs allow the car to showcase “the engine and other ‘jewelry’ while preserving efficiency with a much smaller fairing.”

Page said the removal of sections of engine cowling adds visual interest with minimal impact on aerodynamics.

“We felt the engine makers weren’t getting enough love. There is so much visual interest and also elegance all in the same place there,” he said. “Let the fans see it. Let them see the glint as the cars go by on the parade lap. Now the engine decal is the engine itself and makers can use badges on the valve covers for example as engine as their decal.

2012 IndyCar concepts are fluid and still evolving

Heading into formal presentations of the concepts (the date was not immediately available), Page said there will be “way more than tweaking,” on the designs.

“I think that through this whole process we have learned something from seeing what everyone else thought was most important to address and I’m sure they feel the same way,” Page said. “DeltaWing brought a lot of interesting concepts to the party. I think we are all going back as we prepare to make formal proposals to the IRL with a bigger quiver of ideas. And the IRL is not constraining us at all. They are leaving it very flexible so it can move forward and evolve with input from fans input from engine partners and input from tire partners and so on.”

A return to chassis competition (after a fashion)?

Swift also takes a collaborative approach to the DeltaWing.

“Whatever the IRL decides about the 2012 car, we want to be involved,” said Page. “We’ve worked with Ben (Bowlby) before and would love to work with him again. With a little jiggering, I think fans would take to the DeltaWing, and with a little more jiggering you could address questions about safety.”

The DeltaWing’s concept of “open source” draws more skepticism from Page and Swift, however.

“There are two ways to look at it,” he said. “One is that different part makers making the same parts, therefore additional competition encourages better pricing. That’s a very strong argument. The other one is that you let competitors go into the wind tunnel and develop their own special bits -- if that extends to the entire car -- the money proposition doesn’t come close to closing.”

Costs probably prohibit the racing nirvana of unique Lola, Swift, Dallara, Delta Wing and other chassis battling it out on the track, Page said. But limited areas of competition may at least move IndyCar back toward what fans, owners, the league and drivers all seem to long for: true technical competition.

“Maybe you have a principal maker consolidate the costs on the expensive stuff and take a smaller box (of components) where you still have that technical competition where costs aren’t unlimited” Page said. “So maybe it’s side pods and rear wings. Maybe it’s only the wings. Whatever it is, we at Swift would love to compete with Dallara, Lola, DeltaWing and anybody else in the IRL. If it was more of a limited condition, we would love it.”

For that reason, Page said he personally hopes after the formal proposals the league decides to keep more players in the game, such as moving forward with trying to create competition on limited areas of the car. It might take an additional year after the new car’s introduction to get the “smaller box” competition set up, but the idea is “something we’re giving a lot of thought to here at Swift.”

Keep those comments coming

Fans can help the process by continuing to debate and discuss the entries, talking about what they like, dislike, would like to see, etc. The impact of fan response is hard to overstate, Page said.

“The reaction with the fans people look at these things is everything,” he said. “It’s absolutely everything.”

More questions and answers with Mark Page, Swift’s chief scientist on the IndyCar project

pressdog: Can you walk us through the process Swift used to develop the concepts? Talk about any goals/objectives/principals that guided you.

Page: We started with the stated objectives from IRL. They chose to give objectives instead of specs, which gave us freedom to innovate. We assumed the rule-book could be re-drafted in some areas. Our design would be an all-new 2012 IndyCar, but our Formula Nippon (FN09) car provides a great point-of-departure. The FN09 car has the same engine as the current IndyCar, is FIA compliant for safety, corners and brakes at 4 g’s, and tops out at 200mph … in road course trim. So you have a well-reasoned benchmark.

Next we listed the areas that needed a “plus-up.” These included: tire-launch protection for safety, green for more relevance, reduced wakes for closer racing, and a modern look. The car had to be a modernized IndyCar. To us, that was open-wheel, with a rear-engine, and four corners. Wings were optional.

With the issues in hand, we developed lots of ideas. But some things settled out quickly. For example, small front wings, with a lot of “bite” help prevent flip-over. So wings were retained. Next, we realized you only need launch protection on the front of all wheels or the rear of all wheels, but not both. This is important for cost reduction. For race-ability, we had already developed Mushroom Busters for the FN09 car. Mushroom Busters sweep up the cars wake The FN rules did not allow us to locate these in the best spot. On the IndyCar, we can really improve the effect, and we’re proposing a track width reduction.

pressdog: There has been a lot of discussion in the league about cost reduction. How does your design address that?

Page: First, no middle man distributor. That’s 15% minimum. Next, our FN09 cost already meets the IRL cost target. We will design a new car from scratch for the IRL, but the FN09 is very similar in weight, power, and performance, to an IndyCar. We designed, built, and supported it for nearly the same dollars as the IRL target. So we’re confident we can do it with the new car.

pressdog: What did you do to factor fan preference into your design?

Page: First, I started re-reading IndyCar articles in RACER magazine. Then we all hit the internet to see what fans were saying on blogs. Also, we received a lot of positive feedback on the FN09 car. But the most important thing was to show our concepts publicly, long before everything was set in stone. Internet blogs and polls have provided tremendous feedback. We think this could be used a few more times in the car’s development. This lets the fans direct the design. Our notion is to generate feasible options, present them to the world, and in three days you have the answer.

--

Thanks to Swift Sales Manager Kanna Place and President Jan Wesley Refsdal for arranging the interview with Mark Page. Similar requests for interviews have also been sent to PR reps for Lola and Dallara.

Related links:

• Dallara Eager to Build on 14 Years of IndyCar Success
  
• Lola Says Cars will "Improve the Show"
  
• BAT Becomes Fifth Entrant in Design Derby
• Ben Bowlby talks to Robin Miller about the DeltaWing
• Ben Bowlby talks to Curt Cavin of the Indy Star about the DeltaWing.
• John Barnes, owner of Panther Racing, talks to Chris Estrada of IndyRacingRevolution.com about the DeltaWing.
• More pressdog.com posts on the chassis competition.

Make yourself heard. Please comment below or on your favorite blog, add your votes to this online poll, and leave comments in the HVM 2012 IndyCar concept fan forum.

Comments

[Roy Hobbson]

BAM!!! That's how you interview, right there! Good on you, Mark Page. You too, Bill. You too, Swift #33 - you lucious dame you.

[Allen Wedge]

Pressdog continuing to go where no one else has gone before; connecting the fans.

Great piece; great information!

[Dylan]

Wow! Great job in the interview, and good for Swift giving Pressdog an interview. Swift's done a really good public relations on their car, getting the message out to fans, and Delta Wing is trying to sell their trike, while Dallara is doing what, exactly?

[Rick Jones]

First of all your designs are beautiful. What I'd like to see in Indy cars, especially at Indy, are cars that accelerate out of the turns and then they have to break for the turns. Can we see a design that removes the wings, relying on aero conscious side pods, and body work, and especially mechanical grip?

[Tom G.]

YHe had me at "fans"

Wow. A company that cares what the fan base thinks. What a concept! I think we have found the new Indycar Director of competition.

awesome interview P-dog

[Mike from Ames]

Nice work, Pdog. And thanks to Swift for mingling with the fans. This chassis competition is going to be very interesting. Personally, I love Swift's throwback idea of an exposed engine and the wavy lines of the 32. But efficiency is going to be a big part of motorsports' future. Running 200 mph with 300 horsepower impresses me.

[Ryan Worden]

Great article P-dog. Hopefully IndyCar listens to the idea that even if another chassis is picked (I'm split between Lola and Swift, but also love the Dallara), the other manufacturers could be used on components. Giving the main manufacturer the initial run of cars and then letting anyone tweak them (within rules) would make for fantastic racing and great looking cars.

[My Name Is IRL]

The IndyStar called. They need to know if they should make the check out to "Bill" or "William" or "Pressdog Inc".

Seriously though, THANK YOU for your fantastic work tracking down an interview with one of "the other" chassis designers. I sincerely hope Dallara and Lola offer a few words of enthusiasm as well.

[Travis R]

Great job, pDog! Keep it up!

[Declan]

Good stuff. To the twitter mobile!

[Don]

Anyone of the Swift design's would work just fine for me. Build one for $50K less than the Delta THING and make it considerably faster than the current Crap Wagon and you have a real winner. A great looking car that is scary fast will increase the fan base.

Delta Wing's design goals are good, it's just too ugly and NOT an IndyCar. It has NOTHING to do with the history of North American Open Wheel and should have no place in the sport.

[Mark]

That was as fine a piece of journalism as you will find in any publication, racing or otherwise.

It's great to hear about all of the factors going into designing these cars. If Swift can keep the price down, allow for different engine manufacturers, and do something about the aero problems, they've got my vote. Have they mentioned where these cars/parts would be manufactured?

BTW I like the nose on the FN09 much better than the Indy concept.

[tturner68]

Hate the Delta Wing there isn't a Swift concept that is any better. I am not that big a fan of Indycars with less Hp than my Stock Charger R/T.

Swift would have to change it a bunch to make me still interested in IndyTrike.

[Racewknd]

Love, love, love the fact that Swift is listening to fans and like the lights, mushroom cloud layer, and lights. I'm ready to sing off on this...if only Tony Cottman had a say in this, I'd be willing to give it my seal of approval.

[Leigh O'Gorman]

Great interview.

I've said it once and I'll say it again and again - the lights on the car is a nice, pretty addition, but I believe thing's like the mushroom buster are the way forward

That's the kind of thing we need to be pushing, as it may help the racing - which at the end of the day, is what we want the most, right??

[Leigh O'Gorman]

@ Mark,

I was under the impression that the Swift cars and spares are to be built in California

[Edward]

Of all the designs, I like the Swift designs the best. And when you read an interview like this-kudos as always, P-dog-I begin to understand their views better. I would even love to see something similar to Swift's Formula Nippon car.

[AZZO45]

Love the Swift "32" & especially the Moto GP exposed mechanicals. Would think engine manufacturers would love this too... showcases their motor much better than any decal would.

The only negative of the Swift is sponsorship might be a bit tough

[Scott]

The only negative about the swift is sponsorship?

What about that engine on the back... the one used on their current cars that also happens to be the one used on the current Indycars as well?

Sorry, but none of the owners are going to be signing up for another Honda lease after 2011

[AZZO45]

Scott: Are you freakin' kidding me? You are seriously losing your mind because the Swift designer used a HONDA logo on their model? Are you also pi$$ed that they put a bloody IZOD logo on the car too??

What fools for using an engine that has stayed LOYAL to the ICS (sarcasm meter on "11") Why would Swift drop an Audi or Subaru logo onto their concept when ZERO new manufacturers have stepped up to the series.

Also where did I ENDORSE Honda or any concept of LEASING in my support of the Swift design???

[Pat W]

Firstly, sorry I'm late, and secondly - wow! I've decided Swift should win purely because Mark Page rocks. Great ideas of their own, backed up by fan input? What's not to like? Where do I sign? I mean I like the Lola too, and the DW concepts are sound.. this is a tough call but I'd take the Swift.
Pdog: top notch interviewing, squire.

[Steven Roy]

Acceleration and braking lights on a top level single seater? Seriously?

I think Bowlby's design has no chance of producing good racing. I am sure it all makes perfect sense in the wind tunnel, CFd etc but one crucial factor has clearly not been simulated properly. If you put a field of those cars on a track all you are going to get is crashes all day long. Drivers will see a gap they can stick their nose in and then discover the rear is twice the width of the front and you get a pile up. No doubt I will be told that they are professional drivers but all their careers if they had a gap in front of them that their nose fitted in they could make the rear fit in it.

I also refuse to believe that the front end of that car has enough mechanical grip to deal with hairpins etc.

I love that fans are being consulted but surely the IRL has far more important issues they should be engaging with fans on than car design. In the end if the racing is great no-one cares about car design. They have to sort out the finances and grow the audience and that is going to take more than attractive cars.